Flush-valve toilets don't fit in homes
Jerry Ludwig, Democrat & Chronicle

Dear Jerry: Are the toilets in public restrooms (the ones without the tank) practical for home use? What's the significance of the tank if you don't need one?
— R.I., via email

Answer: As plumber Steve Howe of Howe and Bassett told me, the reason flush-valve toilets are used in commercial installations is that they work better, have less clogging problems and require less maintenance.

The reason that one seldom sees this type of toilet in a residential installation is that they require a one-inch water main, installed up on the wall behind the toilet.

Most residential toilets are supplied with a one-half-inch line through the floor.

The waste pipe location is another incompatibility. Most residential toilets are "roughed in" at 12 inches from the wall near the rear of the toilet.

Commercial flush-valve toilets are roughed in at 10 inches from the wall.

Howe stated that most gravity and power-flush toilets have greatly improved in the past few years.

Howe's favorite brands of tank-type toilets, listed in order of preference, are TOTO, Kohler and American Standard. Plumber Frank Ziefel concurs and recited the same liat when asked for his preferences.

Poor sink venting can release sewer gas
Jerry Ludwig, Democrat & Chronicle

Dear Jerry: Our bathroom sink emits an odor so bad that I cannot put my head over it to brush my teeth.

We have consulted three different plumbers and they all have their own solutions: pour vinegar in the overflow; scrub the drain as deeply as possible; keep the stopper clean.

We have done all of this. We have also used Draino and Liquid Plumber.

The sink has been this way since we had the plumbing changed from copper to PVC pipes. It was copper for 45 years with absolutely no problem.

The last plumber put in a special trap that we thought would solve our problem, but it hasn't. We did have a sewer line installed from the street to the house last summer, but if that was the problem, I would think that the odor would occur at all fixtures and not just the one sink.

Does this trouble also contaminate the water drawn from the sink?
— J.M., Webster

Answer: I consulted on a similar problem recently, and I confess that plumbing odors somtimes can be difficult to solve. Steven Howe of Howe and Bassett, a Rochester plumbing firm, told me that there were two basic causes of foul sink odors.

First, the sink itself could be contaminated. If the sink has been used for anything other than brushing teeth, washing face and hands, etc., bacteria could have built up around the drain or in the overflow channel. I doubt whether this is the cause or the odor, but in cases when the sink has become contaminated, the sink is usually removed and flushed out with acid or replaced with a new unit.

The second and most likely cause of the odor is lack of proper venting. This, in turn, could cause the sewer gas odor that you are likely smelling. If the sink is not properly vented, the flushing of a toilet or running of another fixture could cause the trap to be sucked dry.

The purpose of a trap on a plumbing fixture is to provide a column of water between the waste line and the fixture openings.

If the fixture is not poperly vented, this layer of water can be pulled down the drain, leaving the trap open for gas to escape.

Howe has seen some antisiphon traps installed upside down. As a result, no water remains in the trap; that will result in sewer gas escaping from the sink's drain.

There are other sources of sewer gas within the house. Occasionally, the wax bowl seal around the bottom of the toilet dries out, allowing sewer gas to escape around the bottom of the toilet where it meets the floor. Gas can escape without the toilet actually leaking water.

Sinks, bathtubs, floor drains and other fixtures that are properly trapped but not used for a long time may allow sewer gas to escape when the water in the trap evaporates.

Finally, faulty vent and drain pipes can spew foul odors into the house. Copper vent or drain pipes (popular in homes built in the 1950s and 1960s) that run horizontally are known for developing holes at the top of the pipes because of the corrosive nature of sewer gas. Again, no visible leakage of water may occur, yet harmful sewer gas can escape into the house.

My recommendation is to have a new plumber carefully inspect the sink and the other areas that I've mentioned. Usually, a methodical check of each area is necessary prior to locating the problem.

As long as there is no cross-connection (a way that potable water can be contaminated with sewage) at the sink, I don't think your drinking water is at risk. Nevertheless, have your plumber check this area as well. Since sewer gas is not only a health hazard but is highly explosive, I urge you to take action as soon as possible to isolate and correct the problem.

Water heater trouble not easily fixed
Jerry Ludwig, Democrat & Chronicle

Dear Jerry: Recently, I had my 4-year-old water heater replaced because there was a slow leak in the bottom of the unit. It was still under warranty and I had it replaced with a new unit.

About 10 minutes after the water was turned on, the temperature-pressure valve opened up and water started dripping out. I opened one of the faucets and the water stopped dripping. The plumbers were still here and they replaced the valve. The new valve leaked again.

I called a different plumber and had the inside pressure reducing valve changed as they thought there was too much water pressure in the house. That stopped the leaking until I started to use the dishwasher or clothes washer. Then the valve leaked agin. I had the heater installer replace the valve twice more to no avail.

The valve only leaked when I used the appliances. The water pressure was checked and it was at 55 psi at the faucet. The valve is rated at 210 degrees and at 150 psi.

Now they are telling me that I need an expansion tank to solve the problem. I never had this problem before and I've lived here for years. I checked with the neighbors and they said that they have not had this problem. This is a 40-gallon Craftmaster water heater with "flameguard."
— T.E., via email

Answer: For whatever reason, the valve is responding as it should. However, there are a couple of fixes that you need to examine.

Since the valve leaks after clothes washer or dishwasher use, hot water has recently been called for. The heater comes on to satisfy the demand for more hot water. In doing so, the pressure or temperature (water expands as it becomes warmer) causes the valve to leak.

The first thing to try is lowering the temperature control slightly. That may be enough to keep the valve from leaking.

If that doesn't work, check the pressure-reducing valve you recently had installed. There are two types of valves: Those with a bypass that will allow for an open system and those without a bypass that maintain a closed plumbing system.

In an open system, if the pressure in the indoor plumbing lines increases beyond that which the reducing valve is set for, the valve will allow water to expand back toward the street and bypass the valve. Now that will only work to your advantage if the street pressure is less than what has built up in the indoor plumbing lines. In some parts of Rochester, street pressure may be so high that indoor water pressure cannot overcome it.

In a closed system, the pressure reducing valve only works one way. Thus, any substantial increase in indoor water pressure may affect the pressure reducing valve on the water heater.

Plumber Steve Howe, of Howe and Bassett, stated that in some cases the expansion tank is the solution of last resort. So, first check what kind of pressure reducing valve you have and possibly change that. If the valve is the bypass type, I suspect you may have to install the expansion tank.

By the way, water heaters manufactured after July 1 must have the "flameguard" stystem that your heater has. This is basically a closed-combustion system with a replaceable air filter that was designed to reduce the chances that gasoline or other flammable fumes can be drawn into the heater's combustion area. This change was mostly created to protect those heaters installed in the garage area of house where automobiles, lawn mowers and gasoline are apt to be stored. This modification will add $100 to the price of a heater and will mean periodic changing of the air filter. Heaters that were manufactured prior to July 1 can still be installed.

New wax seal doesn't stop toilet leak
Jerry Ludwig, Democrat & Chronicle

Dear Jerry: We moved into our home about a year and a half ago. For the last six months or so, a toilet has been leaking around the base.

The floor has large ceramic tiles, which have about 1/4 to 1/2 inch grout lines. Moisture is always in these lines, sometimes as far as 6 to 10 inches from the toilet edge.

We had a plumber come and reset the toilet in a new wax seal. When that was not the solution, he came again and said that the water level was too high in the tank and made some adjustments. No results. It seems that the more often the toilet is flushed, the more moisture accumulates on the floor.

Someone suggested either a double wax ring or one with a flange. Knowing nothing about plumbing, I didn't know whether this would be a solution or not. (The plumber did say something about the toilet setting high.)
— M.S.P., Penfield

Answer: A bit of plumbing anatomy is called for here. The plumbing waste line for the toilet has a flange (or a "shoe") that sits on top of the waste line. the flange has holes in it that accept the bolts that hold the toilet in place. The flange should sit on top of the finished floor.

Tile has become an increasingly popular floor for bathrooms. In houses where a new bathroom tile floor has been installed over an exisitng floor, or in cases where cement board and tile have been installed where vinyl flooring used to be, the flange and waste line should be modified to sit on top of this new floor.

However, this is often not the case. New flooring is simply installed over older material and "cut around" the flange. After all, flooring mechanics are not plumbers. As a result, there is too much room between the flange and the toilet bowl, and the area can leak.

Sometimes a double wax seal will prevent leaks, but even so, this is a less than ideal installation.

In cases such as this, where two wax seals are used, longer bolts may be needed to reach from the flange through the toilet base. These bolts may be needed to reach from the flange though the toilet base. These bolts can be made up by a plumber. The age of your house vs. the age of the bathroom floor may give you some clues as to whether or not the flange is properly located. Of course, your plumber would already have this information, and, if the flange was not properly located, I would hope that he or she would have stated so.

However, I'm not positive that the flange issue is your problem. Plumber, Steve Howe, of Howe and Bassett, said there could be a crack in the trap way of the toilet bowl. This channel, often invisible from the top of the toilet, can crack with age or from overly aggressive augering with a plumber's snake.

If there is a crack in this portion of the bowl, it would leak a bit each time the toilet was flushed, consistent with the leakage pattern you have related. This leakage would occur where the wax ring isn't, so a double ring would not help solve the problem.

One other possibility is that the fill valve is shooting water for the tank against the tank lid. If so, the water runs down the outside of the tank and onto the floor. Remove the tank cover and flush the toilet and you'll soon know if this is the cause.

If the flange is properly located, my bet is that there is a crack in the bowl. If so, it's time for a new toilet.

Repairing a sweat-soldered valve
Jerry Ludwig, Democrat & Chronicle

Dear Jerry: I have a question about repairing a sweat-soldered valve.
I just replaced a leaky, old shutoff valve that goes to an outside spigot with a new ball valve, and the soldered joints just don't look right. It's really ugly and doesn't have that nice, smooth lip of solder at the edge of the joint.

It's not leaking, but I'm worried about the joint being weak and susceptible to failure due to vibration or a leak developing over time.
Is it possible, or rather practical, to reheat the joint and try to improve it, or would I just make things worse? If I have to start over, would you recommend using a new valve or can the existing on be reused?
— Jonathan, via email

Answer: I asked plumber Steve Howe of the Rochester plumbing firm Howe & Bassett for his thoughts on your dilemma and here is his response: "I NEVER reheat a soldered fitting," he said. "For what? To save the cost of a valve or fitting?? It'll no doubt be holding water, unlike a joint you make where seconds earlier the pipe was wide open to the atmosphere — especially in the case of a ball valve or stop valve, where the ball and seals being slightly smaller than pipe diameter will dam water against them. You'll heat it so hot to steam the water away and melt the Teflon seal.
"A poor joint is the result of imperfect cleaning or fluxing, and the only fix is to unsolder, reclean and reflux. It's very hard to unsolder without cutting the pipe to let the water out, and once you cut the pipe, why not cut the faulty part out of there and start with something you know will go well? In plumbing, time is money, cutting it out will be much faster every time."

Well, there you have it, straight from the plumber's mouth. I agree with Steve. Buy a new valve and other fittings as necessary and try again. If you feel your plumbing skills need a bit of improvement, I suggest that you purchase a few extra fittings and a short length of extra pipe and practice a bit before you attempt the repair.

Redo roof to make sale; no one wants 'to do' list
Jerry Ludwig, Democrat & Chronicle

Dear Jerry: My girlfriend owns a 1957 ranch house in a desirable Gates neighborhood. She wants to sell it this fall. I am a New York state home inspector. The home is in excellent shape with a few deficiencies. The roof is on its last legs. It has two layers of three-tab asphalt shingles. The valleys were redone at the request of her insurance company. There have been no leaks detected to date.
She does not want to go through the expense to reroof. Of course, a tear-off is required. I said it would make the house more desirable. She says let the new owners take care of it.
What are your thoughts?
— G.P. and M.H., via email

Answer: Well, I'm with you, and for several reasons. Although you and I know that replacing a roof is no big deal, many folks do not. And in the current real estate market, the fewer obstacles one has in presenting a house for sale, the wider the market that it will appeal to.

Let me amplify a bit. When I was inspecting houses for clients, the condition of the roof was nearly always a potential concern. If one walks up to the house and sees a roof in poor condition, it automatically detracts visually from the rest of the structure. Strike one.
Yes, you can always explain to a client that replacing the roof is "no big deal" and should cost "about X amount," but many folks still don't want to buy a house with a "to do" list. A few potential purchasers will not have a problem with this, since the house may be priced accordingly, but most buyers, I suspect, will want to simply move in and enjoy their new residence.

Another issue is the price or perception of cost for this new roof. A major repair such as a new roof often takes on a life of its own when it comes to the perceived cost to the buyer.

You and I know about what a roof should cost, and we may have friends in that business we can trust to do the job and do it well. Many buyers may not have a clue what a roof will cost and automatically think it's going to be an astronomical expense. Strike two.
A further consideration is the other fears that a roof in poor condition may spark. If the house needs a new roof, what other things are in poor shape? Again, the inspector may not find other things in poor repair, but like the used car that has dents in in the fenders and bald tires, the perception is that this house has not been well-maintained. Strike three.

So my advice is to replace the roof and make other repairs as necessary so that whoever inspects the house for the buyer will not have a long list of concerns. Meet with several real estate agents for their cosmetic upgrade recommendations. A fresh-appearing home in move-in condition will be a pleasure to show and inspect.

Provided that the home is priced correctly, making a few upgrades may make the difference between a quick sale and a house that stays on the market through the winter.

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